CONWAYISM AND BABEL: Twelve angry claims!


Part 1—Twelve angry claims which were false:
She wasn't named for Conway Twitty. And she didn't marry Tim Conway.

Despite these disadvantages, Kellyanne Conway has become a powerful force within the world of Donald J. Trump.

The president-elect's rhetorical style is often referred to as Trumpism. If we lived in a different kind of world, competent intellectuals would be working to define the elements of that style.

We don't live in that kind of world. We do live in a world whose public debate is increasingly being shaped by Conwayism. This fact became more clear last Wednesday night, January 11, on Anderson Cooper's CNN show.

The previous day, all Hell had broken loose. Late Tuesday afternoon, CNN had reported that the nation's intelligence chiefs had briefed Trump on the contents of the latest "dodgy dossier," a 35-page collection of unverified claims about Trump.

A few hours later, BuzzFeed actually published the full contents of the dodgy document. The dossier had been floating around for months. Because its claims were unverified (and may in some cases have sounded crazy), no one else had published it.

Suddenly, BuzzFeed did, inanely saying that people could make up their minds for themselves about the array of charges.

CNN's report about the intelligence briefing had preceded BuzzFeed's document dump. Here's the way Jake Tapper reported to Wolf during Tuesday's 6 PM hour:
TAPPER (1/10/17): That's right, Wolf, a CNN exclusive.

CNN has learned that the nation's top intelligence officials gave information to President-elect Donald Trump and President Barack Obama last week about claims of Russian efforts to compromise president-elect Trump.

The information was provided as part of last week's classified intelligence briefings regarding Russian efforts to undermine the 2016 U.S. elections.

I have been working on this story with my colleagues Jim Sciutto, Evan Perez and Carl Bernstein. They all join me now.
It was a CNN exclusive. Excitement seemed to be running high at the pundit-rich cable channel.

In our view, the excitement overrode good journalistic practice in certain ways during's Tapper's report. Eventually, though, it came to seem that CNN's report had basically been accurate.

CNN broke its exclusive late Tuesday afternoon. A few hours later, BuzzFeed went all in, publishing the entire dodgy dossier/memo/report, which ran 35 pages.

By Wednesday, Trump spokesperson Kellyanne Conway was very unhappy about this whole affair. As a result, CNN's Anderson Cooper taped a 25-minute interview with Conway.

Cooper played tape of the entire interview during his program last Wednesday night. During that session, we got to see the general shape of the rhetorical style called Conwayism. We also saw some of the journalistic failings which help make the style so effective.

Which attributes of Conwayism were on display Wednesday night? For today, let's restrict ourselves to one aspect of Conwayism—the ability to make an angry claim again and again and again and again, even if the angry claim in question is factually false.

Let's be fair! At some point, almost everyone ends up making false or shaky claims. It also seems that certain people make many more such claims than is the statistical norm.

During her session with Cooper, Conway launched her false claim quite quickly. Below, you see the way the interview started. We highlight the bogus claim to which we refer:
COOPER (1/11/17): Kellyanne, at today's press conference, Sean Spicer conflated unsubstantiated claims that BuzzFeed released with what CNN reported. And I was surprised by that, because he said BuzzFeed and CNN made the decision to run with the unsubstantiated claim.

That's simply not true. I mean, what CNN said is that CNN is not reporting on details of that memo, as it is not independently corroborated the specific allegations.

Do you acknowledge here and now that CNN did not release the 35-page unsubstantiated claims against Donald Trump and it was misleading and untrue for Sean Spicer to suggest otherwise?

CONWAY: No, our incoming press secretary, Sean Spicer, was exactly right, as was the president-elect, Anderson. CNN went first yesterday and BuzzFeed went second.

COOPER: We didn't report what BuzzFeed reported.

CONWAY: I didn't say that you did, but you linked to it in your story.
To watch the full interview, just click here.

Let's be candid. In part because of Cooper's shortcomings, this conversation was already a bit of a Babel.

That said, Conway had already seemed to make a fairly specific claim. She seemed to be claiming that CNN had linked to BuzzFeed's publication of the 35-page dossier/memo/report.

Is that what Conway meant when she said, "You linked to it in your story?" Few things ever became clear during Cooper's 25-minute tussle with Conway. But it's fairly clear that Conway was claiming that CNN had linked to BuzzFeed's posting of the dossier, or to the BuzzFeed report which presented the dossier.

Again and again and again and again, Conway restated her slightly murky complaint: CNN had linked to BuzzFeed's publication of the 35-page dossier! By our count, she went on to make some version of this angry claim eleven more times.

That made it twelve angry claims in all. It was Classic Conwayism:
Conway's twelve angry claims:
1) " linked to it in your story."

2) "And so were you. You linked to—"

3) "Why do you link to the BuzzFeed story in your report?"

4) "If you couldn't corroborate it, why would you even link to it? Why are you linking to fake news?"

5) "Why are you linking to this stuff? You know the Michael Cohen—you know the Michael Cohen who is mentioned in that report is not the Michael Cohen who works at the Trump organization."

6) "You're linking to the BuzzFeed report."

7) "It's mentioned in here. I'm looking at the updated CNN report. I read it right before we came on air."

8) "It's on your website. But anyway, it's on"

9) "I think if you link to something on your website, you're reporting it."

10) "No, no, hold on! You can't say you're not reporting it if it's on your website."

11) "If you say that CNN's not reporting on something but it's on your website, does that mean CNN is not reporting on it? Because I think they are."

12) Sarcastically: "The BuzzFeed report, the BuzzFeed story is not linked on your website, it's not mentioned in the story?"
If you read the transcript or watch the tape, you'll see that it's perfectly clear. In these repeated statements, Conway was claiming that CNN had linked in some way to BuzzFeed's publication of the 35-page dossier.

During the first half of her interview with Cooper, Conway made this claim again and again and again. Suddenly, though, she stopped making the claim. We'll speculate about the reason for that below.

Again and again and again and again, Conway made her angry claim. At, CNN had linked to BuzzFeed's publication of the 35-page dossier!

If you watch the first half of the videotape, you'll be seeing one key part of Conwayism in action. We refer to the ability to make an angry claim again and again and again.

Having said that, let us also say this. As best we can tell, Conway's angry claim was false. She made her claim again and again, but she was wrong every time.

Conway kept insisting that CNN had linked to the dossier, or perhaps to BuzzFeed's report presenting the dossier. At one point (see number 7 above), she even said that she was looking at the CNN report which contained the link. She said she'd checked it "right before we came on the air" (presumably, right before they started taping).

Angrily, Conway kept making her angry claim. In the course of her tirade, she insisted, several times, that CNN should "clean house," so horrible had their overall journalism been the previous day.

It's a basic tenet of Conwayism. You keep repeating your angry claim, again and again and again. But uh-oh! As best we can tell, in this instance, Conway's claim was false.

As best we can tell, CNN didn't link to the dodgy dossier, or to the BuzzFeed report about it. But here's another problem:

When Cooper sat for his interview with Conway, it seems he didn't know that.

As Conway made her repeated claim, Cooper offered various responses. At several points, he clearly said that CNN hadn't linked to BuzzFeed.

Eventually, though, he flatly said he didn't know whether CNN had done so. This was Cooper's response to Conway's twelfth angry claim:
CONWAY: If you say that CNN's not reporting on something, but it's on your website, does that mean CNN is not reporting on it? Because I think they are.

COOPER: BuzzFeed is not on our website.

CONWAY: OK. The BuzzFeed report, the BuzzFeed story, is not linked on your website, it's not mentioned in the story?

COOPER: I don't know. I don't know all of what's on digital program.


COOPER: I'm told it's not, but I don't believe that it is. I find it weird that CNN—and frankly, if CNN linked to the BuzzFeed stuff, that seems to me inappropriate. And if CNN does that, I would not, I would not support that. But as far as I know, that is not the case. I'm certainly going to check out our website and I urge people to go to our website right now and check it out for themselves.
By this time, complete confusion reigned about an array of points. As we'll see in our next few reports, Cooper and Conway created a total Babel in an array of ways.

That said, Conway stopped making her angry claim at this point, perhaps because Cooper said he'd been told that her angry claim was wrong (presumably by a producer). We'd don't know if that's why Conway suddenly dropped her repeated claim. But we'd call that a decent conjecture.

At any rate, Cooper had finally said it! He finally said that he didn't know if CNN had linked to the BuzzFeed report. Earlier, he'd seemed to say that CNN didn't link. Now, surrounded by a Babel, he said something quite different.

We wouldn't say it was Cooper's "fault" that he didn't know, coming in, whether CNN had linked. You can't know what sorts of claims will be made until someone like Conway starts making them.

We wouldn't say it was Cooper's "fault" that he didn't know whether CNN had linked to BuzzFeed. But again and again, Conwayism feeds on journalistic ignorance, incompetence and deference to power—attributes which are legion.

Today, we've seen one small part of the rhetorical style known as Conwayism. In Conwayism, you make your angry, angry claims again and again and again.

Your anger may overwhelm your accuracy, as seems to have occurred in this instance. But within the world of Conwayism, this may not gigantically matter.

Concern about accuracy may not be a major part of Conwayism. We'll be honest with you one more time:

We see a similar style at work on some of our own tribe's favorite programs. Did you happen to see a certain unnamed cable star bungling facts last Thursday night as she told us about Trump's "lies?"

Tomorrow: Basic tenet: You must always be willing to move to the next ridiculous claim

Should journalists call a lie a lie?


How the debate got started:
Two Sundays ago, it started.

On Meet the Press, Chuck Todd was speaking with Gerard Baker, editor in chief of the Wall Street Journal. With our journalistic culture crumbling around him, Brother Todd asked a question:

Should journalists call a lie a lie?

After Brother Todd popped the question, Baker gave Todd a reply.

Should journalists call a lie a lie? As a general matter, we'd say the answer is no.

Just last night, an unnamed major cable star helped us see why the L-bomb can be dangerous. In her case, she made several basic factual errors, trailing L-bombs behind her as she proceeded.

In fairness, most journalists aren't as kooky or self-indulgent as this rapidly fading star. For today, let's just consider what Todd and Baker said:
TODD (1/1/17): The issue of facts. We don't— People always say, "You've got to fact-check, you've got to fact-check." But we sometimes—there isn't an agreement on what the facts are. And this is yet another challenge for you and everybody here, which—

Do you feel comfortable saying. "So-and-so lied?" To be that—you know, if somebody says just an outright falsehood, do you say the word "lie?" Is that important to start putting in reporting or not?

BAKER: You know, it's a good— I'd be careful about using the word "lie." "Lie" implies much more than just saying something is false. It implies a deliberate intent to mislead. I think it's perfectly—

When Donald Trump says thousands of people were on the rooftops of New Jersey on 9/11 celebrating, thousands of Muslims were there celebrating, I think it's right to investigate that claim, to report what we found, which is that nobody found any evidence of that whatsoever, and to say that.

I think it's then up to the readers to make up their own mind, to say, "This is what Donald Trump says, this is what a reliable, trustworthy news organization reports. And you know what, I don't think that's true."

I think if you start ascribing a moral intent, as it were, to someone by saying that they've lied, I think you run the risk that you look like you are being—you're not being objective. And I do think also it implies that people—

This is happening all the time now, people are looking at what Donald Trump is saying and saying this is false, this is a false claim. I think people say, "Well you know what, Hillary Clinton said a lot of things that were false. I don't recall the press being quite so concerned about saying that she lied when, in headlines or in stories like that."
That's what the twin titans said. For starters, let's frisk Todd's question, simplifying his language the tiniest bit:

If somebody says an outright falsehood, should a reporter say that he or she "lied?"

Basically, that's the question Todd asked. It's a perfectly sensible question.

That said, we'd be inclined to pose a second question in return:

If Person A says an outright falsehood, what would be wrong with reporting that Person A "said an outright falsehood?"

What exactly would be wrong with using language like that? Even that language strikes us as a bit problematic. But what's wrong with using language which simply reports that Person A made a statement which is blatantly or plainly false? Why do we want to jump ahead to the claim that Person A "lied?"

As a starter, that's the question we'd pose to Todd.

Now let's turn to Baker. He starts off noting an obvious fact: When we say that Person A lied, we've gone beyond the mere claim that Person A made a misstatement.

As Baker notes, we're now saying that Person A deliberately tried to mislead us. This takes us into the realm of intent, and intent is typically hard to demonstrate or know.

When Trump made the statement to which Baker refers, was he telling a lie? Was he telling a lie when he continued making his claim, even after evidence began to indicate that his statement was almost certainly wrong?

It's hard to nail down an answer to such questions. In partisan times like these, the claim that Person A (or Donald Trump) lied will tend to end the consideration of what Person A did. One tribe will cheer; the other tribe will leave the room. Inevitably, the reporter will have to admit that he can't quite demonstrate or prove Person A's intent.

Our basic point for the day:

There is a lot of very strong language which falls short of the claim that So-and-so "lied." In the past several decades, our mainstream reporters have very rarely turned to the use of such language, even when discussing public figures who seem to make wild misstatments as a matter of course.

There's a lot of strong language which falls short of the claim that So-and-so "lied." In most cases, we'd suggest that reporters try that sort of language out before they jump ahead to the diagnosis of "lies."

In future episodes of this series, we'll look at some of the punditry which followed Todd and Baker's exchange. We also may look at Baker's statement in a bit more detail. As he continued along, we thought he got rather wobbly. How often has Brother Baker pondered questions like this?

That said, "outright falsehood" is strong language. Has Brother Todd ever used it? We'll guess the answer is no.

INTRODUCING THE GRETA: Helping Trump spread birther claims all around!


Part 4—In search of the greatness of Greta:
MSNBC has stepped up its efforts at selling The Greta.

The channel is now running ads in which a certain "cable news" star vouches for Greta's greatness. "Greta is great," this unnamed star is shown saying in this repulsive new ad.

Victims, it gets even worse! The channel is now running a second ad, in which this same multimillionaire star tells us how much she enjoys interviewing Kellyanne Conway! We've only seen this ad one time, but it sent our analysts into the yard, hands clapped over their mouths.

How great is Greta Van Susteren? Last Thursday, an unnamed major cable news star vouched for her greatness on MSNBC's air. She made a wildly embellished claim about the number of times she's played tape of Greta in the past. She even described the nature of Greta's vast greatness:
MADDOW (1/5/17): If you want to count on your fingers how many times we on this show have played clips of Greta Van Susteren over the years, you could not do it. You need like four extra hands.

And she has an uncanny ability to make newsworthy things happen when the red light is on the camera and she is on TV talking about the news. She can get anybody to talk to her. She has reported from all over the world. She had a decade at CNN. She had 14 years at Fox.

She's also, outside this building, one of the single most decent and genuine and honorable people I have ever come across in this business...She starts here at MSNBC 6:00 Eastern on Monday night. And I could not be happier about it.
Off the air, Greta Van Susteren may well be the world's most decent person. On the air, her work at Fox was often inexcusably bad. The unnamed star who is pimping her greatness has spiraled down badly over the years. Alas! When corporations make people extremely famous and rich, this sort of thing sometimes happens.

How great has Greta Van Susteren's work been over the years? Today, we want to show you two of the video clips this unnamed cable news star has played on MSNBC.

We also want to show you the way Van Susteren helped Donald J. Trump pimp his birther claims down through the years. Today, an unnamed star is pleased to pretend that her dear friend and drinking companion never engaged in such conduct.

Let's start with the video clips of Greta the Great this star has played through the years. Judging from the Nexis archive, you wouldn't need four extra hands to count such incidents up.

For the five years from 2012 through 2016, we found thirteen instances in which this star played tape of Van Susteren interacting with a guest. And uh-oh! Eight of those instances involved repeated airings of just two favorite clips.

How great was Greta Van Susteren at Fox? In a clip this cable star has played on five occasions, Van Susteren interviews the rather callow Rep. Duncan D. Hunter, who inherited his seat in the House from his name's-the-same father, Rep. Duncan L. Hunter.

Back in 2014, Hunter the Younger was claiming that ISIS was sending agents across the southern border. Here's the clip of Greta's greatness, as shown last Thursday night:
MADDOW (1/5/17): This was one of my all-time favorite Greta moments from when she was on Fox.

(videotape from October 7, 2014)

HUNTER: I know that at least ten ISIS fighters have been caught coming across the Mexican border in Texas. There's nobody talking about it, there's—

VAN SUSTEREN: How do you know that?

HUNTER: Because I've asked, because I've asked the border patrol, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: And the border patrol, they just let ISIS members come across the border?

(end of video clip)
According to the unnamed star, we rubes are supposed to regard this exchange as one of Greta's greatest. We'll admit we have no idea why. As almost anyone can see, Greta's second question to Hunter the Younger doesn't even seem to make sense. If ten ISIS fighters have been caught, it would seem fairly clear that the border patrol wasn't "just letting them cross."

Nor did Greta proceed from there to display the astounding skill this unnamed star was now selling. In real time, this is the way her interview with Hunter the Younger proceeded:
HUNTER (continuing directly): No. They caught them at the border. Therefore, we know that ISIS is coming across the border. If they catch five or 10 of them, you know that there are going to be dozens more that did not get caught by the Border Patrol. That's how you know. All you have to do is ask the Border Patrol. That's where we are at risk here, is from ISIS and radical Islamists coming across the border. Once again, they don't have a navy, an air force or nuclear weapons. The only way that Americans are going to be harmed by radical Islamists is to have an open southern border. Chairman Dempsey said the same thing. He said that's where the major threat is here, is having an open southern border. That's how these guys are going to infiltrate through America and harm Americans.

VAN SUSTEREN: Congressman, thank you, sir.

HUNTER: Thank you.

VAN SUSTEREN: And now to the new terror raids in London...
For some reason which has gone unexplained, we rubes are supposed to regard that exchange as one of Greta's greatest at Fox. As noted, the unnamed star has played some version of this exchange five separate times in the past several years.

The unnamed star's second favorite "Greta moment" involves an exchange with Donald J. Trump. The exchange occurred in late May 2015. The unnamed star has played some form of this video clip on three separate occasions.

Last Thursday night, the clip was included in a medley of Greta's greatest moments. Here's how it was presented:
MADDOW (videotape from May 29, 2015): Foreign policy pronouncements like this one that he made this week with my friend Greta Van Susteren on Fox News.

(videotape from May 27, 2015)

TRUMP: Bring ISIS to the table or beyond that, defeat ISIS very quickly, and I'm not going to tell you what it is tonight. You know, one of the problems that we have—

VAN SUSTEREN: Why won't you tell us? Hey, Donald, Donald—

TRUMP: I'll tell you what, because I don't want to, Greta. I'll tell you what—

VAN SUSTEREN: Donald, why don't you tell?
That's what we were shown last Thursday night.

On that occasion in 2015, Van Susteren was asking a perfectly decent question. It was also perhaps the most obvious question in the history of the known world.

Nor did Greta push on from there. In real time, this was the rest of the story. Can you spot Greta's brilliance?
TRUMP (continuing directly): If I run, and if I win, I don't want the enemy to know what I'm doing. I don't want the enemy to know what I'm doing. Unfortunately, I will probably have to tell at some point, but there is a method of defeating them quickly and effectively and having total victory.

I don't want to be Obama, where he goes on television to explain exactly when we're going to attack a certain city, what we're going to do, what hour we're going to be using for the attack, how many men are going in. I don't want to do that because, you know, the late great General Douglas MacArthur and General Patton are spinning in their grave when they hear what we do, how we announce exactly what we're going to do and how we are going to do it. If I run and if I win, I don't want the enemy to know what I'm going to do. All I can tell you is that it is a foolproof way of winning, and I'm not talking about what some people would say, but it's a foolproof way of winning the war with ISIS and it will be absolutely 100 percent they will at a minimum come to the table and actually they will be defeated very quickly, very quickly.

VAN SUSTEREN: You say "if" you're running, so tell me. Where do you stand on this and when will you have more information on that?
You may have noted Greta's tendency to let guests like Trump rattle on at length even when they're making ridiculous claims, then to move to the next subject. Despite this rather obvious flaw, we liberals have now been told to regard this exchange as another example of Van Susteren's greatness at Fox.

Citizens, do you really need four extra hands to count the times this cable host has played tape of Van Susteren's greatness? Not exactly, no.

In fact, those two soporific exchanges represent eight of the thirteen occasions on which this cable star has played such Greta tapes in the past five years! Aside from the fact that her corporate bosses wanted her to sell their new car, it's hard to see why this unnamed star would be pimping The Greta this way.

That said, we want to help you see why last week's grift was so appalling. We want you to see the way Van Susteren helped her frequent guest, Donald J. Trump, peddle his birther claims during her tenure at Fox.

As John Whitehouse recently noted at Media Matters, Van Susteren frequently interviewed Donald J. Trump even before his run for the White House. On several occasions, this gave her the chance to apply her journalistic greatness to his birther claims.

Briefly, let's be fair. Typically, Van Susteren would meekly tell Donald J. Trump that, for herself, she was "satisfied" with Obama's claim that he had been born in Hawaii. But she avoided telling her viewers why she would have said that.

Duh! Van Susteren is a ranking, experienced lawyer who came to TV in the 1990s as a legal analyst. As of 2011, she of course understood that Obama had presented his legal Hawaii birth certificate way back in 2008, and that the state's Republican health director had vouched for its authenticity.

This was the so-called "short form" document. But duh! As Van Susteren of course understood, the "short form" document is the official document the state of Hawaii provides as proof of Hawaiian birth.

It was, and is, Obama's official "birth certificate!" He had presented it in 2008, as Van Susteren of course understood.

That said, so what? By 2011, an array of people like Donald J. Trump were saying it wasn't enough. In response, in May of that year, Obama obtained and presented his "long form" birth certificate—the type of document which is maintained in Hawaiian state archives, but isn't normally issued for any reason, or legally used as proof of birth.

As it turned out, even this wasn't enough for hustlers like Donald J. Trump. This presented Van Susteren with a problem—how to keep presenting Trump as a guest without telling her millions of viewers that they were being conned, disinformed, treated like fools, grotesquely misled and played.

Van Susteren could and should have told them that. Despite her greatness, she kept refusing.

Greta Van Susteren was very careful to keep The Donald afloat. In the transcript shown below, we see how much abuse she was willing to take to let Trump keep pimping his garbage.

It was now October 24, 2012. It had been more than a year since Obama had produced his "long form" document—his second proof of Hawaiian birth. Meanwhile, Donald J. Trump was now pimping the claim that Obama hadn't really attended Columbia, or that something embarrassing would surely be found in his mysterious college records.

As their interview began this night, Van Susteren asked about Trump's offer to pay $5 million to a charity if Obama would release his college records. Soon, though, Trump swerved back to the question of Obama's birth, and a sad discussion occurred.

When Van Susteren said she was "satisfied" about that matter, Donald J. Trump subjected her to a lengthy pistol-whipping—and Greta just sat there and took it. As she apologizes to Trump, try to note the basic things which somehow go unsaid:
TRUMP (10/24/12): You have no idea. I get millions and millions of hits on, "Just please stay with this." I walk down the street, people love me over it. I went to North Carolina, made a speech. The most important thing was the issue of location, place of birth, etc.

I went to Liberty University, made a speech, incredible school. I mean, they loved this.
Greta, this is a very important issue. This is a very important issue.

VAN SUSTEREN: Are you not satisfied with the presentation of the documents of his birth? Are we going back to that? Is that why you want this? Or is it something else?

TRUMP: Well, I am not sure about it. Other people are not sure. All have you to do is pick up the newspapers and you will see. There are many people that have serious questions about what he presented. There were many, many people. So I'm certainly not sure. Now, would I like to see him—

VAN SUSTEREN: There are two different questions, though. There are two different questions. One is, I thought the birth issue was established, that you were satisfied. You got the president to produce his long-form birth certificate establishing—

TRUMP: I did. And Greta, nobody else was able to do that.

VAN SUSTEREN: Right. And so I thought that you were satisfied that he met the constitutional requirements. Now you want these other records, and I'm trying to figure out why. Is it like you want to see what kind of student he was or is there something you're looking for—

TRUMP: Greta, why are you speaking for me? I never said I was satisfied. I never told you that I was satisfied.

VAN SUSTEREN: Oh, you weren't? Oh, I didn't know that.

TRUMP: Excuse me, who's satisfied? All you have to do is pick up the newspapers, there are many, many people, tremendous numbers of people, that are not satisfied. There's tremendous skepticism as to what he presented. Unbelievable skepticism—

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, then I stand corrected. I apologize. Let me just say, I apologize for getting it wrong. I'm satisfied, so that's why I made a mistake about you. But go ahead.

TRUMP: Are you satisfied?

VAN SUSTEREN: Yeah, I am, actually, because I went back and looked—

TRUMP: I am very surprised at you. I am very surprised at you. I don't know how you can be satisfied. But if you are satisfied, you are less skeptical than me. I grew up in the real estate business in New York, Greta. I have seen everything.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Let me ask you a question about, in these college records, is there something else that you are looking for besides the issue about birth?

TRUMP: Greta, let's see what it says! You're talking about a tremendous amount of money for charity. Let's see what it says! Who knows? I mean, if you ask me, what do we know? You don't know anything, Greta. I mean, for you to say—

I really am surprised at you. You don't know anything. And for you to say that you're satisfied is really shocking to me, to be honest with you.
And when you ask me, what do you think? Let's find out. I can't tell what you I think because I don't know. I haven't seen the papers. But I will tell you this—

VAN SUSTEREN: Donald, let me—this is the thing— This is what I don't get. There was a newspaper report that this child had been born at the time the president had been born in Hawaii.


VAN SUSTEREN: And there would have been no way to create that fiction—

TRUMP: You're wrong!


TRUMP: It's a well-known fact that many people in order to get certain benefits of the United States would put out those reports and they put them out when people aren't even in the country. That happened many, many times. And if you read the facts and if you understood this, you wouldn't even be asking that question.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right.

TRUMP: But that put it out because by putting it out, they would get the benefits of being a U.S. citizen and get some of the benefits and all of the benefits of being a United States citizen. So you know, I'm surprised you said that too, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. So what is your suspicion? Are you just fishing? Or do you have—

TRUMP: Greta, I don't want to say anything about suspicion. I'd like to have him be transparent. We know nothing about our president...
The discussion continued briefly from there. As it ended, Van Susteren said, "Donald, always nice to see you, even when we lock horns."

In that discussion, Van Susteren absorbed abuse from the ludicrous Trump over her lack of skepticism about his birther claims. Bowing down before Ole Massa, she apologized for her errors—and she never stated the obvious reasons why she was "satisfied" about the question of Obama's birth.

Over the years, Van Susteren conducted a number of discussions with Trump about the birther lunacy. We find no place where she ever informed her viewers about the most elementary facts—where she told them that the "short form" record, which Obama had provided in 2008, was Hawaii's legal record of birth; where she explained the relationship between that document and the "long form" record, which Obama had provided in 2011.

In this exchange in 2012, she let Trump scold her, in derisive terms, for mentioning the birth notice which appeared in the Hawaiian newspaper. But she never mentioned these basic, obvious legal points about the gong show her guest was conducting. In this way, she served the interests of her corporate owners, who were paying her millions of dollars per year—and she treated millions of viewers like fools.

(Obviously, she also would have understood how inane Trump's statements about the birth notice were.)

Today, we liberals assail those viewers as racists. As we do, Our Own Corporate Hoor goes on the air to treat us like absolute fools, money stuffed into her pants.

Like the viewers over at Fox, we liberals just sit there and take it. If we might borrow from Don Corleone, this is the gong show we've chosen.

Greta Van Susteren's work at Fox was anything but great. Last Thursday, an unnamed star was working hard to sell us a wheezing contraption—to sell us The Edsel, The Betsy.

In TV ads, this major star can now be seen vouching for The Greta. Grinning weirdly, "Greta is great," our own tribute to Trumpism says.

To watch Greta bow to Ole Massa: For tape of Greta's exchange with Trump, just click here, then click again under the headline, "Trump Suggested Obama's Long-Form Birth Certificate Was Forged."

Can you spot the greatness there? Frankly, we cannot.

Regarding The Greta, no fish today!


We're fact-checking Cooper v. Conway:
We expect to spend the day fact-checking this week's Wednesday night fight.

We refer to last evening's dispiriting battle between CNN's Anderson Cooper and Donald Trump's Kellyanne Conway.

To watch the tape of the fight, click here. The full interview lasted 25 minutes. Broken into chunks, it ate up most of Cooper's 8 PM hour.

Cooper and Conway were debating the accuracy of a Tuesday report by CNN. This is the way last night's battle got started:
COOPER (1/11/17): At today's press conference, [Trump spokesman] Sean Spicer conflated unsubstantiated claims that BuzzFeed released with what CNN reported [on Tuesday]. And I was surprised by that, because he said BuzzFeed and CNN made the decision to run with the unsubstantiated claim.

That's simply not true.
I mean, what CNN said is that CNN is not reporting on details of that memo, as it is not independently corroborated the specific allegations.

Do you acknowledge here and now that CNN did not release the 35-page unsubstantiated claims against Donald Trump and it was misleading and untrue for Sean Spicer to suggest otherwise?

CONWAY: No, our incoming press secretary, Sean Spicer, was exactly right, as was the president-elect, Anderson. CNN went first yesterday and BuzzFeed went second.

COOPER: We didn't report what BuzzFeed reported.

CONWAY: I didn't say that you did, but you linked to it in your story.
That chunk of transcript shows you how last night's battle started. As best we can tell, three things have already happened:
Things which have already happened:
1) Cooper has offered a fuzzy paraphrase of whatever it is Spicer said.

2) Cooper has asked a two-part question, making it easier for Conway to give him an answer she liked.

3) Conway seems to have made an inaccurate claim ("you linked to it in your story"), though we aren't yet completely sure about that.
Toward the end of his hour, Cooper devoted one segment to a discussion of this dispute. This discussion featured CNN personnel only. Whatever one thinks of Conway's performance, we thought the CNN personnel got way out over their skis at times.

Skill levels sometimes seemed low. In fairness, this shouldn't be completely surprising given the peculiar behavior these stars are now confronting.

Conway is so central to one branch of Trumpism that it might as well be called Conwayism. We expect to explore the culture of Trumpism next week.

Tomorrow, we'll finish our report on The Selling of Greta Van Susteren. Just in terms of depression abatement, on how many consecutive days can you ask a sensible person to discuss the sales job a certain unnamed cable star dumped on our heads last week?

("Greta is great! She is!")

For the transcript of Cooper's 8 PM hour, you can just click here. You'll be seeing the headlong unraveling of our failing political culture, which enters, on that videotape, into Full Babel Mode

The process which produced last night's "discussion" has been underway for 25 years. Whatever your preferences, make no mistake:

Our liberal world has played a key role in this ongoing, gruesome process.